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  • Ken J
    Sorry Vic, people keep bringing it up, and it's a pretty personal topic for me... sometimes I couldn't help myself...
  • @Ken J

    While I agree with you, Rob's right - this thread has gotten way off track. Let's not keep going down this path here.

    Vic
  • hmm... I'm not liking these gun arguments here on this thread - wrong type of website.
  • Ken J
    Ronnie, it is irrelevent when that "law" (it's a Constitutional Amendment, just like the "law" that guarantees your freedom of speech, religion, and expression) was made, it was made for a reason and that reason is one that never goes away. It is to give the people who live here the right to not feel powerless. Like you said, any snot nosed punk can kill you with a gun. Well, how would you feel if some snot nosed punk has a gun to you and you have no way to defend yourself? Sure you can call 911 if you think he won't shoot you for trying to call 911, and even if you do, you'll have to HOPE that he doesn't kill you before the cops arrive, or that he doesn't kill you the second he hears the cops. I mean, you're basically leaving your life to the mercy of the snot nosed punk and dumb luck. Sure in the movies some rock falls out of the sky just in time to save the good guy, but you know that doesn't happen in real life.

    And the other thing that Amendment is supposed to guarantee is that the Government remains scared of its people, not the other way around. Sure the government technically has tanks, planes, and bigger guns (of course the last wouldn't be so if we were allowed to have anything...), but what people who use this argument forgets is that our armed forces are made up of PEOPLE. They are not remote controlled tanks and planes (yet) that the central government can use against us. I'm sure if the government started to turn on its people, a very good percentage of the military commanders would realize that their sworn duty is to defend the Constitution, not the big wigs in Washington, and would be on our side.

    So I do believe that the people having a means to defend themselves would still be useful today as it was in the American Revolution.

    Like Kel said, the bad guys will ALWAYS have weapons, and this is true and the proof is in today's criminals. We ALREADY have laws that prohibit these people from owning firearms. Felons have been prohibited from possessing a firearm for a long time now. Yet they still have them. So what does this tell you about the effectiveness of laws on criminals? They call them criminals for a reason you know. Drugs, murder, rape, robbery, are all illegal, does that stop them? The only people that don't do these things are law-abiding citizens like you and I. The same applies to gun laws. I'm shocked so many people and politicians believe that gun laws are somehow magically more effective than all of the other laws in performing the way they should. Laws are more there to give cops a reason to arrest people than to actually prevent things from happening. If someone wants to do something desperately enough, they'll do it despite what the law says. The ONLY purpose the law has is providing something to charge these individuals with AFTER they've already committed the act. So do you think it'll somehow help you if you were killed by someone who is charged with murder and weapons possession instead of the person killing you only getting charged with murder?? Either way you're still dead...
  • Ronnie
    @Kel...I agree Mickey Rourke should have won. I thought either him or Clint Eastwood should have won for best actor, but of course Clint wasn't even nominated. The Dark Knight and Gran Torino snubs were the reason I refused to watch the Oscars this year and will more likely never watch them again
  • Ronnie
    Oh @ Vic...Rocks and Knives (or baseball bats, pipes, pretty much any hand held weapon) don't scare me, with as many years martial arts and boxing training (including stick and knife fighting) as I've had your better off not using anything like that because I'll just hurt you more for pissing me off and trying to hurt me...but guns scare the crap out of me!!! Why? Because any snot nosed punk can pull a trigger. Doesn't take a real man or brave man to pull a gun on someone. I own a couple handguns, so can't say I'm against them but others that are could come on here and skew the numbers the way they'd like to show why tougher handgun laws work. Of course you can do that with any statistic on anything.

    I really just wanted to say the rock and knife argument doesn't work, LOL. Just remember one thing when people try to defend to the right to bare arms...that law was written when they used muskets. It is a truly outdated law. Why did they get rid of the powdered wigs but not the guns???

    Oh btw...did I mention that the oscars are out of touch and a bunch elietest snobs? Well I guess I just did, lol.
  • Ronnie
    I've read Jackman was good. I of course wouldn't know because I didn't watch one second of the oscars for the first time since I first started watching in 1978 at the age of 5(almost 6) to see if Star Wars would win...they have lost me, forever
  • Ken J
    @KEL

    Thank goodness some people in this world still have some sense.
  • KEL
    ...and I know it's late but in regard to the gun argument:

    ....the bad guys will always have weapons. Just sayin'. :-)
  • KEL
    @Vic

    LOL!

    Penn did say one thing I REALLY agreed with tho, in fact, I've been saying it for years: that the academy is a bunch of "commie, homo lovers". ;-)

    Seriously, Rourke should have won.

    Hugh Jackman did well. I still can't get used to the idea of him singing. Wolverine...in a tux....singing. LOL! ;-)
  • greenknight333
    Yeah buy Pitt is not the young generation anymore...I hink Zac Efron and those of his ilk are pansies/metroboys of the new generation of actors...Oh no I have a zit..make-up

    For the love of God bring back the tough guy!! Loved Pitt in the Fight Club!!
  • Gary
    SK47,
    I agree with you about the the youngdude contingent .
    Bycontast,
    a truly GENUINE moment between Young and Old Hollywood occured whn Anthony Hopkins paid tribute to Brad Pitt during
    The Best Actor segment.
    Hopkins delivered it with such warmth and sincerity that I thought it was very touching.
  • SK47
    Zac Efron and that vampire dude being at the Oscars is like slapping the faces of Marlon Brando, Kirk Douglas, Yul Brynner, and other acting greats that have graced the stage to receive their awards. This ain't Nickelodeon! This is my opinion only, if they are Hollywood's next generation, well, good thing I am not younger.
    Another opinion of mine: Natalie Portman and Alicia Keys! Ah...love is in the air/everywhere I look around/Love is in the air/every sight and every sound...ah!
  • greenknight333
    Well I don't want the guy to lose a foot so I'll change that to Footloose instead of Footlose... :)
  • greenknight333
    Go Footlose!! **sarcasm** Hey Rob that worked..Thanks
  • greenknight, quick! say something about Zac Efron.... before its too late!
  • greenknight333
    I'm strugling at the keyboard..must type something..must....respond..
  • @greenknight & Tricia

    LOL, yeah... I'm done talking about that aspect of it - I won't even reply to ppnkof. :-)

    Vic
  • greenknight333
    Now Vic you should follow your own advice or I am going to start chiming in again.. ;)
  • Tricia
    Vic, I'll bet you regret asking why C.H. wasn't applauded. Sorry, I opened up that can of worms.

    Now I will shut up and go to Bass Pro, I mean Blockbuster to rent some movies.
  • hmm... I don't get the gun talk here but I'll say this:

    If arming everyone is the solution, give every country nukes. Same logic, no?

    Less politics, more Oscars! What did you all think about Zac Efron and Robert Pattinson being on stage and on the red carpet? All I'm hearing on my end is ladies telling me they liked when they kept showing Mickey Rourke in the audience because Robert could be seen over his left shoulder.

    I think that was bad because shouldn't the nominees of the other categories (non-acting) have been sitting in those first rows?
  • ppnkof
    Here's the only point I'll make about guns and gun control:

    Many of us here in America don't trust the strangers around us to act right to begin with. It's for that very reason that many of us feel the need to own guns: in case the strangers around us don't act right.

    However following that strain of logic to its end: we don't trust the strangers around us, who might have guns, to act right. So we need a better gun than they have (shoot further, faster, etc.)

    Even when we trust a gun owner we know to act right with her/his gun, there's usually SOMEONE within that person's circle who we don't trust around the guns (crazy uncle Jerry, Aunt Flo who's half blind, etc.)

    The thing about guns is if one lands in the hands of someone irresponsible, even if that person is NOT a criminal; even if the gun belongs to a responsible owner (yes you can be "responsible" and have your gun fall into the wrong hands. STUFF HAPPENS), a gun is a weapon where, if one shot goes awary or off mark it's not just the user or the person standing next to them who is in potential danger. It could be the child in the next house playing by the window, the mother doing the dishes--innocent uninvolved people. And the probability of that tragedy occurring is directly proportional to the caliber and type of the gun.

    You don't need an assault rifle to thwart or kill a mugger, carjacker or home invader. In any of those situations a Pistol will do the job. You DO need an assault rifle to get drunk and have target practice in the woods with your hillbilly friends; to highjack an armored car, rob a bank, or keep the government from storming your compound; or, to quote the Simpsons "To kill today's super animals like the flying squirrel or electric eel."

    In fact, no debate needed. The NRA episode said it all.

    Me, I don't like guns. "They don't allow you to savior, all the, little...emotions."

    That's why I use a switchblade.

    What's your weapon of choice?
  • @Tricia

    I'm very sorry to hear about your nephew. Someone with a gun collection should have known better and taken more precautions.

    FYI, Florida adopted a right-to-carry law in 1987. Anti-gun groups, politicians and the news media predicted the new law would lead to vigilante justice and “Wild West” shootouts on every corner.

    Between 1987 and 1996, these changes occurred:

    homicide rate
    Florida: -36%
    United States: -0.4%

    firearm homicide rate
    Florida: -37%
    United States: +15%

    handgun homicide rate
    Florida: -41%
    United States: +24%

    In Japan, where guns are outlawed (and even the criminals don't have them) murder and assault using knives as weapons is increasing. If someone is intent on hurting someone they WILL find a way, whether it be with a gun, a knife or a rock.

    Vic
  • greenknight333
    Thanks for the tidbit SK47 and the follow-up Gary...

    Cheers
  • Gary
    Found it !
    Heston played Harry Steele in Secret Of The Incas .
    and he wore the jacket and the fedora!
  • greenknight333
    Just being cheeky Vic!!

    Cheers
  • Gary
    SK47,
    which Heston film inspired Indys look ?
    Thats a fascinating tidbit which I didnt know.
  • Tricia
    Heath's passing was not included in the memorial montage because he died on Jan. 22nd of last year and was included in last year's Oscars.

    As for C Heston, I meant to say that he was not "a god" because I know that we often put entertainers and athletes on the level of being gods. They are just ordinary people doing extraordinary things. I know that Mr. Heston was a great actor, even tho I watched only a few of his movies with his role as Moses being the only one that I liked. (I watch the 10 Commandments every year). I didn't like when he said "Guns don't kill people. People kill people," which is ridiculous. How many would have died at Columbine if those killers had not had assault weapons? Altho I too believe in the 2nd amendment and the right to own a gun to protect myself, I think we need more control in some areas. (My nephew died by an accidental shooting at a party of teens when a 19 year old was showing off his collection of guns).

    I did as little research on Heston and found out that in the 50's and 60's he was one of a handful of Hollywood actors actors who openly stood up against racism and was an active supporter of the Civil Rights Movement. Politically, I actually have more in common with his beliefs than I realized. So Mr. Heston, I applaud you!
  • Ken & greenknight

    Let's not ramp this up, ok? We all know it goes nowhere.

    Thanks,

    Vic
  • greenknight333
    and Ken

    "So hey, if you’re so willing to give up your rights to protect yourself, then go ahead"

    Patriot Act Dude..already been done..they come for your guns next ;)
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